Delete Recall

Proposer
PaulJRobinson
State

Rejected

Vote Score

-2000

Age

2408 days


PaulJRobinson

@PaulJRobinson - over 6 years ago

I was initially appalled by this morning's announcement. Then I read this and thought we should at least discuss the points raised by ERShttp://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/blog/recall-right-move-to-drop-disastrous-pledge

@PaulJRobinson edited democracy.md - over 6 years ago

Elections

Allow for full and proper recall of MPs: any e-petition to recall their MP supported by 20% of all registered constituency electors should trigger a local referendum (yes/no majority vote required) as to whether to hold a fresh bi-election.

Introduce an 'None of the Above' box on all ballot papers to formally and positively register abstention.

Introduce voting by proportional representation (Single Transferable Vote) in all General and Local Elections.

PaulJRobinson

@PaulJRobinson - over 6 years ago

I should emphasise that I am still in favour of Recall, but thought this link was interesting enough to at least warrant a discussion of the points raised. Does anyone have any ideas as to how these objections could be addressed? Spending limits on recall petitions perhaps? A higher threshold of 30% of electors (bearing in mind that today's Labour candidate in Wythenshawe and Sale East won with support of just 15% of electors - albeit 55% of those who did actually bother to vote).

PaulJRobinson

@PaulJRobinson - over 6 years ago

oops sorry!

On 14 February 2014 12:12, James Smith [email protected] wrote:

Link for extra clickability: http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/blog/recall-right-move-to-drop-disastrous-pledge

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/openpolitics/manifesto/pull/102#issuecomment-35078371 .

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

Interesting points, and I agree - while I like the idea of recall, US experience has not been good. It would seem that you could perhaps use campaign spending law to limit the big money problems, but I guess it's not simple.

Needs thought. I'd rather have something in there, even if just a desire to give some sort of recall control, while acknowledging current implementation problems.

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 6 years ago

Perhaps we should have explicit actions that can trigger a recall. Here's a start for consideration; 1. Criminal conviction 2. Breach of the Code of Conduct for MPs 3. If there are X or more constituency overrides (#103) for an MP, a recall petition will be acceptable

A cost limit would be good too, and the whole system very efficient.

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

This is along the lines of what I was thinking also.

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 6 years ago

Take a look through the executive summary of the draft bill and and white paper on this. I'd question is the £10k limit on spending (far too high for an 8 week period IMO).

On America, the Commons Select Committee Report says, "although the mechanisms exist in the United States, recall has seldom been used successfully and is deployed less frequently than other forms of direct democracy" (paragraph 8). Not much more on that though.

The draft bill included the first two of my three suggested triggers (though 2 was different, the principle in the bill is the same but is broader in practice) and seems to be "partial recall" (i.e. needs Parliament to trigger it) where as my addition of the third trigger would make it a "full recall" where constituents, as well as Parliament, have the power to trigger a recall*.

Also worth considering (based on the Select Committee report): - If convicted of a political crime (e.g. civil disobedience to prove a point) should a recall still be triggered? - At what level of "wrongdoing" would the Commons be able to trigger a recall. Gov't said "serious" but refused to define it and CSC said that would blur boundaries between Recall and General Elections.

I've only skimmed the draft bill and CSC report, but worth a look.

*I personally see no point in recall without a constituent trigger - that's the whole principle.

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

I think I'm a 👎 on this. Recent events have once again highlighted the need for voters to be able to recall their MPs, though I agree that finding a way to make it workable and resistant to abuse will be essential.

I would consider accepting a PR that changed our definition and method of recall, but not one that just removes it.

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 6 years ago

👎 because my profile page is telling me I haven't voted ;)

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

I think we need to improve our definition of recall, but I think we're clear that we wouldn't want to remove it. There is useful stuff in Rebooting Democracy about learnings from places that have done it before that will be relevant. Unless anyone speaks up in the next day or so, I'm going to close this.

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

Actually I'm going to close it now, and if anyone feels especially strongly the other way, they can reopen it. @PaulJRobinson, that mainly means you :)