Devolve minimum wage policy

Proposer
digitalWestie
State

Rejected

Vote Score

0

Age

1675 days


@digitalWestie edited manifesto/economy.md - over 4 years ago

title: Economy

layout: policy published: true


  • table of contents
  • table of contents

{:toc}

What policies should we propose to maintain a competitive economy that provides full employment?

Minimum Wage

The minimum wage should be set to the same value as the living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65), and automatically adjusted in line with that figure.

Minimum wage policy should be devolved to account for the disparities in living wage across the UK, e.g. London living wage is £9.15/hour rather than £7.65.

Taxation

Income Tax

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65) and will rise inline with the living wage.

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage and will rise inline with the living wage. This means that someone working a normal full-time job at the minimum wage would not pay any income tax.

Capital Gains Tax will be replaced by an Asset Tax, based on an annual self-assessment. It will apply to those whose assets amount to greater than £350,000. Debt, such as mortgages, will be offset against any assets and the remainder will be assessed as the taxable value of assets. This ensures those who accumulate wealth purely through accumulation of assets, rather than direct income, are contributing to the economy whilst avoiding an unnecessary burden on the average family.

The rate of Asset Tax for individuals will be harmonized with the rate of tax on earned income, and all allowances for each will be pooled, in order to ensure that work is rewarded and incentivised to the same extent as investment.

VAT

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely - even if this requires renegotiating our obligations to the EU.

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely. This may require renegotiating our obligations to the EU, which makes VAT compulsory for all member states.

Financial Transaction Tax

Introduce a tax on financial speculation, commonly known as a "Robin Hood Tax". We will do this by joining the proposed EU Financial Transaction Tax[^1] system, which is planned to start in 10 countries across Europe during 2016 (including France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and Estonia). We would also work with international organisations to broaden such a regime beyond the EU.

Social Security

We will support research into a universal basic income and its effects on society and the economy, with the aim of eradicating poverty and providing a basic standard of living for all.

Housing

Stamp Duty Land Tax (paid on house purchases) should be reformed, with tax band thresholds linked to the regional average house price. Purchases up to the regional average house price should be zero-rated. In addition, the 'slab' approach of current taxation will be changed to an incremental approach, where only the amount above a threshold is taxed at that rate.

Improve rental rights, such that residential tenants cannot be evicted if they are paying market rate rent and have not damaged the property. Create a general principle that for tenants a property is their home and core to their life, whereas for landlords it is but a piece of property and simply a financial asset.

Land Value Tax

Adopt Land Value Taxation (LVT)[^3], a charge on the rental value of land not including any improvements made on the site (such as buildings, drainage and services). Valuation to be based on market evidence, in accordance with the optimum use of the land within the planning regulations and updated regularly (at least every 2 years)[^4][^5]. LVT would replace Council Tax, Uniform Business Rates, and Stamp Duty. There will be two rates of Land Value Tax - a national rate and a local rate. The national rate will be decoded after consultation and research. The local rate will be set at the discretion of each local authority. Public open space, public transport infrastructure and open water will all be exempt from LVT. Local and national government property will not be exempt, to encourage the efficient allocation of publicly owned assets.

Business

Ensure worker-owned cooperatives and mutuals are given priority with all government contracts.

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^1].

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^2].

Public Sector

In order to stimulate adoption of the living wage, and act as a good example, all public sector organisations and National Infrastructure Organisations will be required to pay employees at least a living wage.

Compulsory Purchase in the Public Interest

Patents and other forms of IP are used excercised for many globally important scientific and medical examples. Such protection is necessary for the organisations that produce the advancements, as they need to recoup the costs. A side effect, however, is that crucial cures and the like are subject to high costs and so spread slower than they perhaps could.

We will investigate a form of compulsory purchase aimed at important scientific advancements that would then place those advancements under an open license, encouraging wider use at lower cost.

Of huge importance to the investigation will be the need to establish a method of compensation that the scientific community can trust. Avoiding a chilling effect is essential - the comulsory purchase should be there to aid the adoption of advancements, not stifle research in the first place.

All public sector organizations will have to use open source software and services where available. Proprietary software that is currently in use should be examined for open source alternatives. A timeline should be created and made public to show how and when the body will convert to this alternative in a reasonable period of time. This is to cut down on public sector costs and increase our society's participation in the open source culture.

Tax Havens

We will instruct HM Treasury to produce a roadmap for the future of currency and the role of central banks in a world with non-state-issued digital currencies, such as Bitcoin.

The central bank will be required to consider the reduction of inequality (as measured by the GINI coefficient) when formulating monetary policy to balance its existing remit of maintaining price stability and inflation at 2%.

Land Ownership

Follow recommendations regarding transparency in the Lyons Housing Review - "To ensure greater transparency in the land market, the Land Registry should open up land ownership information to the public in a similar manner as the property price paid data set and make it a legal requirement to register land option agreements, transactions and prices."

[^1]: EU Financial Transaction Tax - Wikipedia [^2]: Stop Secret Contracts [^3]: Land Value Taxation Campaign - What is LVT? [^4]: A Land Value Tax for England [^5]: A Land Value Tax for Scotland

mikera

@mikera - over 4 years ago

I like the idea of devolving the minimum wage policy but this commit contradicts this by saying it should be set to the living wage. I think surely if you devolve that decision you have to let the individual regions set the level, surely?

digitalWestie

@digitalWestie - over 4 years ago

Yes, maybe I should reword the above to be a principal that we support at the devolved level?

On 14 April 2015 at 12:27, Mike Anderson [email protected] wrote:

I like the idea of devolving the minimum wage policy but this commit contradicts this by saying it should be set to the living wage. I think surely if you devolve that decision you have to let the individual regions set the level, surely?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/openpolitics/manifesto/pull/323#issuecomment-92775863 .

Floppy

@Floppy - over 4 years ago

My understanding of the change was that the minimum wage should be the living wage, and that the value should be set on a devolved basis dependent on the local living wage.

digitalWestie

@digitalWestie - over 4 years ago

Yep that's what I was getting at.

Floppy

@Floppy - over 4 years ago

Perhaps "devolved" is the wrong word, as it has a specific meaning politically. Perhaps just "set locally"?

digitalWestie

@digitalWestie - over 4 years ago

'devolved parliaments and assemblies' to be specific

yellowgopher

@yellowgopher - over 4 years ago

The issue with "set locally" is that what defines "local" - parish, district, county...? Within a district you can have massive differences in wealth (and, therefore, cost of living). I like the idea of a "living wage" but I feel this has to be set nationally or the whole thing becomes a complete nightmare to manage and implement!

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 4 years ago

I like this. One sticking point - presumably England's living wage would be set by Westminster but to what? The London wage? Or would would the GLA be given power to set London differently?

@digitalWestie edited manifesto/economy.md - over 4 years ago

title: Economy

layout: policy published: true


  • table of contents
  • table of contents

{:toc}

What policies should we propose to maintain a competitive economy that provides full employment?

Minimum Wage

The minimum wage should be set to the same value as the living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65), and automatically adjusted in line with that figure.

Minimum wage policy should be decided by the appropriate devolved assembly or legislature (e.g. London or Welsh Assemby). This way the relevant body could account for the disparities in living wage across the UK, e.g. London living wage is £9.15/hour rather than £7.65.

Taxation

Income Tax

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65) and will rise inline with the living wage.

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage and will rise inline with the living wage. This means that someone working a normal full-time job at the minimum wage would not pay any income tax.

Capital Gains Tax will be replaced by an Asset Tax, based on an annual self-assessment. It will apply to those whose assets amount to greater than £350,000. Debt, such as mortgages, will be offset against any assets and the remainder will be assessed as the taxable value of assets. This ensures those who accumulate wealth purely through accumulation of assets, rather than direct income, are contributing to the economy whilst avoiding an unnecessary burden on the average family.

The rate of Asset Tax for individuals will be harmonized with the rate of tax on earned income, and all allowances for each will be pooled, in order to ensure that work is rewarded and incentivised to the same extent as investment.

VAT

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely - even if this requires renegotiating our obligations to the EU.

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely. This may require renegotiating our obligations to the EU, which makes VAT compulsory for all member states.

Financial Transaction Tax

Introduce a tax on financial speculation, commonly known as a "Robin Hood Tax". We will do this by joining the proposed EU Financial Transaction Tax[^1] system, which is planned to start in 10 countries across Europe during 2016 (including France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and Estonia). We would also work with international organisations to broaden such a regime beyond the EU.

Social Security

We will support research into a universal basic income and its effects on society and the economy, with the aim of eradicating poverty and providing a basic standard of living for all.

Housing

Stamp Duty Land Tax (paid on house purchases) should be reformed, with tax band thresholds linked to the regional average house price. Purchases up to the regional average house price should be zero-rated. In addition, the 'slab' approach of current taxation will be changed to an incremental approach, where only the amount above a threshold is taxed at that rate.

Improve rental rights, such that residential tenants cannot be evicted if they are paying market rate rent and have not damaged the property. Create a general principle that for tenants a property is their home and core to their life, whereas for landlords it is but a piece of property and simply a financial asset.

Land Value Tax

Adopt Land Value Taxation (LVT)[^3], a charge on the rental value of land not including any improvements made on the site (such as buildings, drainage and services). Valuation to be based on market evidence, in accordance with the optimum use of the land within the planning regulations and updated regularly (at least every 2 years)[^4][^5]. LVT would replace Council Tax, Uniform Business Rates, and Stamp Duty. There will be two rates of Land Value Tax - a national rate and a local rate. The national rate will be decoded after consultation and research. The local rate will be set at the discretion of each local authority. Public open space, public transport infrastructure and open water will all be exempt from LVT. Local and national government property will not be exempt, to encourage the efficient allocation of publicly owned assets.

Business

Ensure worker-owned cooperatives and mutuals are given priority with all government contracts.

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^1].

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^2].

Public Sector

In order to stimulate adoption of the living wage, and act as a good example, all public sector organisations and National Infrastructure Organisations will be required to pay employees at least a living wage.

Compulsory Purchase in the Public Interest

Patents and other forms of IP are used excercised for many globally important scientific and medical examples. Such protection is necessary for the organisations that produce the advancements, as they need to recoup the costs. A side effect, however, is that crucial cures and the like are subject to high costs and so spread slower than they perhaps could.

We will investigate a form of compulsory purchase aimed at important scientific advancements that would then place those advancements under an open license, encouraging wider use at lower cost.

Of huge importance to the investigation will be the need to establish a method of compensation that the scientific community can trust. Avoiding a chilling effect is essential - the comulsory purchase should be there to aid the adoption of advancements, not stifle research in the first place.

All public sector organizations will have to use open source software and services where available. Proprietary software that is currently in use should be examined for open source alternatives. A timeline should be created and made public to show how and when the body will convert to this alternative in a reasonable period of time. This is to cut down on public sector costs and increase our society's participation in the open source culture.

Tax Havens

We will instruct HM Treasury to produce a roadmap for the future of currency and the role of central banks in a world with non-state-issued digital currencies, such as Bitcoin.

The central bank will be required to consider the reduction of inequality (as measured by the GINI coefficient) when formulating monetary policy to balance its existing remit of maintaining price stability and inflation at 2%.

Land Ownership

Follow recommendations regarding transparency in the Lyons Housing Review - "To ensure greater transparency in the land market, the Land Registry should open up land ownership information to the public in a similar manner as the property price paid data set and make it a legal requirement to register land option agreements, transactions and prices."

[^1]: EU Financial Transaction Tax - Wikipedia [^2]: Stop Secret Contracts [^3]: Land Value Taxation Campaign - What is LVT? [^4]: A Land Value Tax for England [^5]: A Land Value Tax for Scotland

digitalWestie

@digitalWestie - over 4 years ago

Since this is generating a few more questions I've added a bit more clarity. In summary what I mean is this: - Min. wage should be set at devolved level - The devolved parliament/assembly level means (Welsh/Scot./NI/London assembly) - In the context of this manifesto this would include the English regional assemblies

Floppy

@Floppy - over 4 years ago

Can we change the text "minimum wage policy should be decided" to "living wage level should be decided"? The policy is universal, minimum==living. You want to set the living wage regionally. Which makes sense.

@digitalWestie edited manifesto/economy.md - over 4 years ago

title: Economy

layout: policy published: true


  • table of contents
  • table of contents

{:toc}

What policies should we propose to maintain a competitive economy that provides full employment?

Minimum Wage

The minimum wage should be set to the same value as the living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65), and automatically adjusted in line with that figure.

The living wage policy should be decided by the appropriate devolved assembly or legislature (e.g. London or Welsh Assemby). This way the relevant body could account for the disparities in living wage across the UK, e.g. London living wage is £9.15/hour rather than £7.65.

Taxation

Income Tax

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65) and will rise inline with the living wage.

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage and will rise inline with the living wage. This means that someone working a normal full-time job at the minimum wage would not pay any income tax.

Capital Gains Tax will be replaced by an Asset Tax, based on an annual self-assessment. It will apply to those whose assets amount to greater than £350,000. Debt, such as mortgages, will be offset against any assets and the remainder will be assessed as the taxable value of assets. This ensures those who accumulate wealth purely through accumulation of assets, rather than direct income, are contributing to the economy whilst avoiding an unnecessary burden on the average family.

The rate of Asset Tax for individuals will be harmonized with the rate of tax on earned income, and all allowances for each will be pooled, in order to ensure that work is rewarded and incentivised to the same extent as investment.

VAT

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely - even if this requires renegotiating our obligations to the EU.

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely. This may require renegotiating our obligations to the EU, which makes VAT compulsory for all member states.

Financial Transaction Tax

Introduce a tax on financial speculation, commonly known as a "Robin Hood Tax". We will do this by joining the proposed EU Financial Transaction Tax[^1] system, which is planned to start in 10 countries across Europe during 2016 (including France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and Estonia). We would also work with international organisations to broaden such a regime beyond the EU.

Social Security

We will support research into a universal basic income and its effects on society and the economy, with the aim of eradicating poverty and providing a basic standard of living for all.

Housing

Stamp Duty Land Tax (paid on house purchases) should be reformed, with tax band thresholds linked to the regional average house price. Purchases up to the regional average house price should be zero-rated. In addition, the 'slab' approach of current taxation will be changed to an incremental approach, where only the amount above a threshold is taxed at that rate.

Improve rental rights, such that residential tenants cannot be evicted if they are paying market rate rent and have not damaged the property. Create a general principle that for tenants a property is their home and core to their life, whereas for landlords it is but a piece of property and simply a financial asset.

Land Value Tax

Adopt Land Value Taxation (LVT)[^3], a charge on the rental value of land not including any improvements made on the site (such as buildings, drainage and services). Valuation to be based on market evidence, in accordance with the optimum use of the land within the planning regulations and updated regularly (at least every 2 years)[^4][^5]. LVT would replace Council Tax, Uniform Business Rates, and Stamp Duty. There will be two rates of Land Value Tax - a national rate and a local rate. The national rate will be decoded after consultation and research. The local rate will be set at the discretion of each local authority. Public open space, public transport infrastructure and open water will all be exempt from LVT. Local and national government property will not be exempt, to encourage the efficient allocation of publicly owned assets.

Business

Ensure worker-owned cooperatives and mutuals are given priority with all government contracts.

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^1].

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^2].

Public Sector

In order to stimulate adoption of the living wage, and act as a good example, all public sector organisations and National Infrastructure Organisations will be required to pay employees at least a living wage.

Compulsory Purchase in the Public Interest

Patents and other forms of IP are used excercised for many globally important scientific and medical examples. Such protection is necessary for the organisations that produce the advancements, as they need to recoup the costs. A side effect, however, is that crucial cures and the like are subject to high costs and so spread slower than they perhaps could.

We will investigate a form of compulsory purchase aimed at important scientific advancements that would then place those advancements under an open license, encouraging wider use at lower cost.

Of huge importance to the investigation will be the need to establish a method of compensation that the scientific community can trust. Avoiding a chilling effect is essential - the comulsory purchase should be there to aid the adoption of advancements, not stifle research in the first place.

All public sector organizations will have to use open source software and services where available. Proprietary software that is currently in use should be examined for open source alternatives. A timeline should be created and made public to show how and when the body will convert to this alternative in a reasonable period of time. This is to cut down on public sector costs and increase our society's participation in the open source culture.

Tax Havens

We will instruct HM Treasury to produce a roadmap for the future of currency and the role of central banks in a world with non-state-issued digital currencies, such as Bitcoin.

The central bank will be required to consider the reduction of inequality (as measured by the GINI coefficient) when formulating monetary policy to balance its existing remit of maintaining price stability and inflation at 2%.

Land Ownership

Follow recommendations regarding transparency in the Lyons Housing Review - "To ensure greater transparency in the land market, the Land Registry should open up land ownership information to the public in a similar manner as the property price paid data set and make it a legal requirement to register land option agreements, transactions and prices."

[^1]: EU Financial Transaction Tax - Wikipedia [^2]: Stop Secret Contracts [^3]: Land Value Taxation Campaign - What is LVT? [^4]: A Land Value Tax for England [^5]: A Land Value Tax for Scotland

@digitalWestie edited manifesto/economy.md - over 4 years ago

title: Economy

layout: policy published: true


  • table of contents
  • table of contents

{:toc}

What policies should we propose to maintain a competitive economy that provides full employment?

Minimum Wage

The minimum wage should be set to the same value as the living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65), and automatically adjusted in line with that figure.

The living wage level should be decided by the appropriate devolved assembly or legislature (e.g. London or Welsh Assemby). This way the relevant body could account for the disparities in living wage across the UK, e.g. London living wage is £9.15/hour rather than £7.65.

Taxation

Income Tax

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage (currently £14,458.50 based on 252 working days of 7.5 hours per day at £7.65) and will rise inline with the living wage.

The personal income tax allowance will be set at the level of a full time living wage and will rise inline with the living wage. This means that someone working a normal full-time job at the minimum wage would not pay any income tax.

Capital Gains Tax will be replaced by an Asset Tax, based on an annual self-assessment. It will apply to those whose assets amount to greater than £350,000. Debt, such as mortgages, will be offset against any assets and the remainder will be assessed as the taxable value of assets. This ensures those who accumulate wealth purely through accumulation of assets, rather than direct income, are contributing to the economy whilst avoiding an unnecessary burden on the average family.

The rate of Asset Tax for individuals will be harmonized with the rate of tax on earned income, and all allowances for each will be pooled, in order to ensure that work is rewarded and incentivised to the same extent as investment.

VAT

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely - even if this requires renegotiating our obligations to the EU.

Investigate possible reforms to the way VAT is applied to goods and services with a view to making it less regressive and, ultimately, to remove the poorest from having to pay entirely. This may require renegotiating our obligations to the EU, which makes VAT compulsory for all member states.

Financial Transaction Tax

Introduce a tax on financial speculation, commonly known as a "Robin Hood Tax". We will do this by joining the proposed EU Financial Transaction Tax[^1] system, which is planned to start in 10 countries across Europe during 2016 (including France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and Estonia). We would also work with international organisations to broaden such a regime beyond the EU.

Social Security

We will support research into a universal basic income and its effects on society and the economy, with the aim of eradicating poverty and providing a basic standard of living for all.

Housing

Stamp Duty Land Tax (paid on house purchases) should be reformed, with tax band thresholds linked to the regional average house price. Purchases up to the regional average house price should be zero-rated. In addition, the 'slab' approach of current taxation will be changed to an incremental approach, where only the amount above a threshold is taxed at that rate.

Improve rental rights, such that residential tenants cannot be evicted if they are paying market rate rent and have not damaged the property. Create a general principle that for tenants a property is their home and core to their life, whereas for landlords it is but a piece of property and simply a financial asset.

Land Value Tax

Adopt Land Value Taxation (LVT)[^3], a charge on the rental value of land not including any improvements made on the site (such as buildings, drainage and services). Valuation to be based on market evidence, in accordance with the optimum use of the land within the planning regulations and updated regularly (at least every 2 years)[^4][^5]. LVT would replace Council Tax, Uniform Business Rates, and Stamp Duty. There will be two rates of Land Value Tax - a national rate and a local rate. The national rate will be decoded after consultation and research. The local rate will be set at the discretion of each local authority. Public open space, public transport infrastructure and open water will all be exempt from LVT. Local and national government property will not be exempt, to encourage the efficient allocation of publicly owned assets.

Business

Ensure worker-owned cooperatives and mutuals are given priority with all government contracts.

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^1].

All private companies who receive public money must be subject to the same transparency requirements as governments when it comes to the goods and services they deliver[^2].

Public Sector

In order to stimulate adoption of the living wage, and act as a good example, all public sector organisations and National Infrastructure Organisations will be required to pay employees at least a living wage.

Compulsory Purchase in the Public Interest

Patents and other forms of IP are used excercised for many globally important scientific and medical examples. Such protection is necessary for the organisations that produce the advancements, as they need to recoup the costs. A side effect, however, is that crucial cures and the like are subject to high costs and so spread slower than they perhaps could.

We will investigate a form of compulsory purchase aimed at important scientific advancements that would then place those advancements under an open license, encouraging wider use at lower cost.

Of huge importance to the investigation will be the need to establish a method of compensation that the scientific community can trust. Avoiding a chilling effect is essential - the comulsory purchase should be there to aid the adoption of advancements, not stifle research in the first place.

All public sector organizations will have to use open source software and services where available. Proprietary software that is currently in use should be examined for open source alternatives. A timeline should be created and made public to show how and when the body will convert to this alternative in a reasonable period of time. This is to cut down on public sector costs and increase our society's participation in the open source culture.

Tax Havens

We will instruct HM Treasury to produce a roadmap for the future of currency and the role of central banks in a world with non-state-issued digital currencies, such as Bitcoin.

The central bank will be required to consider the reduction of inequality (as measured by the GINI coefficient) when formulating monetary policy to balance its existing remit of maintaining price stability and inflation at 2%.

Land Ownership

Follow recommendations regarding transparency in the Lyons Housing Review - "To ensure greater transparency in the land market, the Land Registry should open up land ownership information to the public in a similar manner as the property price paid data set and make it a legal requirement to register land option agreements, transactions and prices."

[^1]: EU Financial Transaction Tax - Wikipedia [^2]: Stop Secret Contracts [^3]: Land Value Taxation Campaign - What is LVT? [^4]: A Land Value Tax for England [^5]: A Land Value Tax for Scotland

digitalWestie

@digitalWestie - over 4 years ago

good idea, done

mikera

@mikera - over 4 years ago

Two points I'd like to make: a) There is overlap between this and any proposed "citizens income" policy. If the aim is to ensure a living wage, then presumably the minimum wage should be set at a level that "tops up" the difference between the citizens income and the minimum wage? b) While evidence is inconclusive, there does at least seem to be some US evidence which suggests that minimum wages cause net job loss among low-skilled workers. see e.g. http://www.nber.org/papers/w20619

I don't really want to vote against as I'm in favour of improving the lot of low wage workers, but I do think this policy is still a bit over-simplistic and needs some work.

I personally think the better policy solution is actually not to have a minimum wage, but find ways to improve the income of low wage individuals in other ways (citizens income etc.). But if we want to allow minimum wage policy to be decided locally, I'd support that with the above provisos. i.e. I'd like to see an option for local areas to decide not to have a minimum wage.

digitalWestie

@digitalWestie - over 4 years ago

I've had a look at the studies about minimum wages causing job losses too. In many senses I would prefer mechanisms that would prevent exploitation without the need for legislation to step in. The Nordics have relatively high wages and yet have no minimum wage laws. This is because the majority of the population belong to trade unions that help workers negotiate pay. I actually think we should be thinking hard about ways to help people negotiate pay and to help them understand their worth as workers. Forcing companies to reveal gender pay differences is good example of this. Also, I think encouraging worker-ownership/control would go a long way to this end too.

For the purposes here citizen's income isn't in the manifesto so I would put citizen's income to one side. I might go as far to say I would stand by a living wage policy even if it meant job losses. No living wage is economic dishonesty - when people aren't paid enough to live on as this means that the welfare system, or increasingly, family members have to pick up the slack.

Anyway, good point though, do we have living wage policy if we go for citizen's income? My first reaction is that it would mean a lower living wage?

mikera

@mikera - over 4 years ago

@digitalWestie The living wage isn't defined as being "paid enough to live on" however so it is hard to defend it as a minimum on a purely ethical basis. I live in Asia and assure you that the living wage as defined in the UK is actually quite a high income by global standards.

The fundamental economic problem is this: a) You have an employer willing to hire an unskilled worker for a new role. This employer can pay up to £8 per hour and still be profitable, but beyond that would lose money on the margin. Hence the job is viable at any wage up to £8 (this is the demand curve for labour, if you like) b) You have a worker who is willing to work for £6 or more per hour (and able to get by on that amount), but having trouble finding a job otherwise.

Without a minimum wage, the job would be created (with a wage somewhere between £6 and £8), and both parties would be better off. I find it hard to describe this as "exploitation" - you have two parties willing and able to enter into a business relationship. With a minimum wage set above £8 (say £10), you have just eliminated the possibility of this job being created.

That's why I prefer a citizens income approach to solve this problem. With a citizens income approach, you can pay a citizens income (say £4 per hour), the job is still created (at £6-8 per hour) and the worker gets a total of £10-12 an hour, which is above your original minimum wage but without the problem of a viable job being destroyed.

Hope that is a useful illustration.

Please don't get me wrong: I want to help the poorest in society and improve the lot of low-wage workers. I just think we should be very careful about jumping to the conclusion that a minimum wage is the right way to do this. It's one of those ideas that sounds good at first but has quite a few unintended consequences. In particular, it runs the risk of slightly helping some of the working poor with a bit more income (which is nice, but could be achieved in other ways), while excluding some others from the labour market entirely (which is extremely damaging).

digitalWestie

@digitalWestie - over 4 years ago

I believe the exploitation is created where choice is limited. If there's no citizen's income then it's not so easy for someone to shop for other job offers, therefore they may have to go with whatever wage is available (hence beginning of exploitation). If there's a citizen income this problem is solved.

Anyway, with ambiguity here, we should decide on Citizen's Income, @mikera do you want to start a vote on it?

Floppy

@Floppy - over 4 years ago

A couple of points here: 1. This PR is not proposing the minimum=living wage; we already have that in. This is proposing the the level should be set regionally. The diff is a little confusing, because of a known bug in the editor. @mikera if you disagree with the minimum-wage concept as a whole, that should go in a separate proposal. 2. We have a bit in about basic income already, but it can definitely be fleshed out, and I'd invite you to do so: http://openpolitics.org.uk/manifesto/economy.html#social-security 3. If we move to say that the citizens' income should be adopted (which I would agree with), then yes, this wording would change to take account of the citizens' income; I would imagine it would say something like the minimum wage would be the living wage minus the citizens' income.

BUT, this PR is just about regional allocation of the minimum. Let's vote on that :)

mikera

@mikera - over 4 years ago

Happy to do a separate PR on citizens income, assuming changes can be cascaded to related stuff (like this).

However this commit needs cleaning up first, there is unrelated stuff in it (like financial transaction tax). So still ✋ until is is cleaned up!

Floppy

@Floppy - over 4 years ago

No, that diff is just an artefact of the editor being weird, honestly. @digitalWestie you might be able to fix it by pulling openpolitics:master into this branch and pushing again - can you have a go?