Beyond High Speed 2

Proposer
PaulJRobinson
State

Accepted

Vote Score

2

Age

2440 days


PaulJRobinson

@PaulJRobinson - over 6 years ago

This pull request has been automatically generated by prose.io.

@PaulJRobinson edited transport.md - over 6 years ago

End UK airport expansion

There will be no further expansions (such as new runways or terminals) of any UK airports, and capacity shall be capped at roughly current levels.

Beyond High Speed 2

Investigate feasibility of building high speed rail not only to connect London to Birmingham and Manchester, but also further West to Bristol, Wales and the South West, as well as further North into Scotland.

frankieroberto

@frankieroberto - over 6 years ago

Not sure what's meant be 'feasible' here – of course it's feasible, the question would be over whether it's worthwhile or not, and what the best route would be. Do you mean to propose commissioning a survey of the best route corridors for these destinations?

PaulJRobinson

@PaulJRobinson - over 6 years ago

I think we may be talking about the same thing here. Some would argue against the whole premise that high speed rail would: help generate business and investment for the regions; help reduce overall emissions; reduce overcrowding on the existing network; help reduce road congestion. My instinct tells me that investing in more advanced railways is a good thing for the environment, society and the economy. My instinct tells me that if one high speed railway from London to Paris has been a good thing, then a second, third, fourth and many more would be equally beneficial.

I'm proposing that a study is commissioned - what I called a 'Feasibility Study', but it could be called it a 'Worthwhile Study' if you prefer, to demonstrate that all the above is indeed true, and to consider where those routes could be placed.

with kind regards, Paul Robinson

about.me/pauljrobinson

On 13 January 2014 15:13, Frankie Roberto [email protected] wrote:

Not sure what's meant be 'feasible' here – of course it's feasible, the question would be over whether it's worthwhile or not, and what the best route would be. Do you mean to propose commissioning a survey of the best route corridors for these destinations?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/openpolitics/manifesto/pull/70#issuecomment-32177319 .

frankieroberto

@frankieroberto - over 6 years ago

@PaulJRobinson the only thing to be aware of is that commissioning any kind of route study invariably will cause some anguish and uncertainly for those living in the line of one of the proposed routes, such that at some point you have to offer compensation payments.

However I'm generally in favour of a high speed rail network. I do think there's a question to answer over just how fast it needs to be though, given that faster trains means higher costs, more civil engineering (as curves must have bigger radii), fewer stations, and usually higher emissions too.

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 6 years ago

I'm going to refer to my comment about connected transport here.

There is evidence that HSR in France has led to further economic disparity between Paris and the rest of the country (sorry, can't remember where I saw that - was a long time ago) so we'd need a review.

The fundamental principle of a high-speed rail system that connects the major cities of Europe together is, I believe, a fantastic one but it doesn't sound like HS2 will even connect to HS1 which is a massive missed opportunity for a connected HSR network that would reduce the demand for air travel.

frankieroberto

@frankieroberto - over 6 years ago

@philipjohn as far as I'm aware, High Speed 2 will be able to connect through to High Speed 1 via Old Oak Common (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HighSpeed2#HighSpeed1), albeit not at full speed. I'm not sure that this has been 100% confirmed though.

The ability for High Speed Rail to connect European cities together and reduce demand for air travel is a great benefit, I'd agree, and one of the strongest arguments in favour of it.

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

Perhaps this should be a more general point on public investment in rail infrastructure, including new high speed links where appropriate? I'd like to add a point on computerisation of the network for higher throughput, at some point.

PaulJRobinson

@PaulJRobinson - over 6 years ago

yes sounds good.

with kind regards, Paul Robinson

about.me/pauljrobinson

On 29 January 2014 00:22, James Smith [email protected] wrote:

Perhaps this should be a more general point on public investment in rail infrastructure, including new high speed links where appropriate? I'd like to add a point on computerisation of the network for higher throughput, at some point.

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/openpolitics/manifesto/pull/70#issuecomment-33543890 .

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

Thinking about this the other day, the advantage seems to me to be in connecting the big cities to Europe, not necessarily to London. If this went forward, I'd like to see it phrased as a plan to connect the top 10 cities by population (plus Cardiff because capital) to the European high-speed network.

Top 10 are: - London - Birmingham - Leeds - Glasgow - Sheffield - Bradford - Edinburgh - Liverpool - Manchester - Bristol - (plus Cardiff, which is number 12, but is a capital)

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 6 years ago

Just as an update based on my earlier comment, we now know that HS2 will not connect with HS1, making this an entirely national high-speed rail network which, in my eyes, defeats the whole point of having a high speed network.

I think if we're going to support HSR we need to be doing so as part of a Europe-wide networked transport system. There is a 'green' element to that as well, of course.

PaulJRobinson

@PaulJRobinson - over 6 years ago

Agree with @philipjohn that connection to HS1 is vital.

with kind regards, Paul Robinson

about.me/pauljrobinson

On 3 April 2014 23:30, philipjohn [email protected] wrote:

Just as an update based on my earlier comment, we now know that HS2 will not connect with HS1, making this an entirely national high-speed rail network which, in my eyes, defeats the whole point of having a high speed network.

I think if we're going to support HSR we need to be doing so as part of a Europe-wide networked transport system. There is a 'green' element to that as well, of course.

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/openpolitics/manifesto/pull/70#issuecomment-39513077 .

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 6 years ago

@PaulJRobinson You up for doing some re-wording on this one Paul? Would be good to get James' suggestion on cities, and the connection to Europe's HSR network in.

@PaulJRobinson edited transport.md - over 6 years ago

End UK airport expansion

There will be no further expansions (such as new runways or terminals) of any UK airports, and capacity shall be capped at roughly current levels.

Beyond High Speed 2

Investigate feasibility of building a high speed rail network that connects our ten largest cities (and Cardiff also) to the European high speed network via HS1.

philipjohn

@philipjohn - over 6 years ago

@frankieroberto What do you think to @PaulJRobinson's latest change? Worthy of your thumb?

Floppy

@Floppy - over 6 years ago

@frankieroberto what're your thoughts on this as it stands? We've got enough votes to merge, but as you've been commenting it would be nice to know how you feel before we do :)

frankieroberto

@frankieroberto - over 6 years ago

@Floppy I think it's worth fleshing this out some more, to be honest. It's not very specific at the moment. 'Investigate feasibility' could be a high-level report looking at costings, or a detailed report looking at actual route alignment and station positioning (which costs more, and creates uncertainty for people living along those routes).

I think I'd prefer to see us setting down some principles, such as investing heavily in railways with the aim of transferring travel from cars and planes to trains, pricing strategies, and so on.

Floppy

@Floppy - about 6 years ago

In the absence of blocks, and in the interests of moving things on, I'm going to merge this and suggest that people improve it as they see fit once merged.